clutch issue - Honda

JG74
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:53 am
Location: E Sussex

clutch issue - Honda

Post by JG74 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:44 am

hi all, can someone give me a theory?
Last year sometime I fitted new friction plates in another bike I have, the clutch had been slipping very slightly for a while.
I also changed the oil and filter. The new oil was Putolene 10/40 MC oil. Semi Synth.

Clutch worked perfectly for a short while, then I noticed I couldn't engage 1st gear without a nasty lurch. this just quickly got worse and now bike is un-rideable.
Nothing more happened for a year, but yesterday I drained the oil and removed the RH crankcase. Clutch pack looks as it should, and expands fine.
It's clear that even like it is now, open and visible, the plates are sticking together! I can separate them manually and things work ok. There is nothing wrong with the mechanism.
what has happened? I did not oil the friction plates before fitting.. :?

I will take everything apart and check some inner spring washer isn't the wrong way around, and look for damage etc.

thanks for any ideas..
John
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Gbo
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Location: Uk

Re: clutch issue - Honda

Post by Gbo » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:02 pm

Some bikes are very fussy about the oil you use. I take it you have checked cable and arm/pushrod adjustment if any. I would ask another owner of the same make/model.
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JG74
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:53 am
Location: E Sussex

Re: clutch issue - Honda

Post by JG74 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:34 am

thanks Gbo.. hmm it's a strange one.

Like I say the clutch pack expands as it should when lever pulled. It's hydraulic, and I also changed/bled the clutch fluid.

My only theories are:
The oil isn't what the can says it is, or
Because I fitted plates without pre-oiling them, they have scrubbed something onto the steel plates which is sticky!

Next I will carefully sand the plain plates on a flat surface with some W/D 400, clean the friction plates, oil them and refit.
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JG74
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:53 am
Location: E Sussex

Re: clutch issue - Honda

Post by JG74 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:50 pm

have cleaned everything in the parts washer, skimmed the steels, and got rid of the grooves on the fingers (the new friction plates may have been binding on these)

will re-assemble and put the same oil back in and see how it goes :D (the oil is almost new)
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JG74
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:53 am
Location: E Sussex

Re: clutch issue - Honda

Post by JG74 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:31 pm

painted oil on the friction plates, stuck the pack all back together, and (although I have not ran bike) I don't think it's any better!

with the side case still off and the pack exposed, I can engage clutch, see a few mm of movement, but the whole pack moves outwards... I can manually push each friction plate in - away from its steely, and all is fine, but it takes a bit of force to unstick them.. how weird.. I am sure if I finish getting it done, it will be as stuck as a stuck thing straightaway!

This is starting to point to odd oil, or and odd mix of this oil and the residual sikolene that was in the previously..
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JG74
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:53 am
Location: E Sussex

Re: clutch issue - Honda

Post by JG74 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:37 pm

painted oil on the friction plates, stuck the pack all back together, and (although I have not ran bike) I don't think it's any better!

with the side case still off and the pack exposed, I can engage clutch, see a few mm of movement, but the whole pack moves outwards... I can manually push each friction plate in - away from its steely, and all is fine, but it takes a bit of force to unstick them.. how weird.. I am sure if I finish getting it done, it will be as stuck as a stuck thing straightaway!

This is starting to point to odd oil, or and odd mix of this oil and the residual sikolene that was in the previously..

this morning:Image
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Gbo
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Re: clutch issue - Honda

Post by Gbo » Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:25 pm

How deep are the grooves on the friction plates? Could the steel and friction plates be wringing together? Is it a 4 stroke or 2. I have had two strokes which use atf or a mix of the two instead of normal oil.
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JG74
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:53 am
Location: E Sussex

Re: clutch issue - Honda

Post by JG74 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:12 pm

hi Gbo,

the frictions are nearly brand new so I haven't measured them (they have been in bike a while but it hasn't really gone far) Bike is a VFR800, I have had it about 16 years. I just tried an experiment, I grabbed a couple of each plate, re cleaned them and used a different MC 10/40 semi synth oil I had, just because I am out of ideas.. no difference in any way. This unscientific experiment suggests the oil isn't the problem, or it has already contaminated the friction plates and now they are useless.. how annoying..

Put the pack back together again, re bled clutch line, and still getting a decent 2/3mm movement outwards, but no joy.. I can't even roll it in 1st gear without locking the back wheel. crazy :twisted:

the oil used when I did the Friction plate change at the start of all of this, about 1000 miles ago.

https://www.putoline.com/en/catalogue/p ... w-40/1719/

the friction plates were actually bought 2 years ago, for ÂŁ25 from M and P
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JG74
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:53 am
Location: E Sussex

Re: clutch issue - Honda

Post by JG74 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:42 pm

having read this, which is my issue, I think I will buy another set of plates..

https://www.thetriumphforum.com/threads ... tch.12629/
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Gbo
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:45 pm
Location: Uk

Re: clutch issue - Honda

Post by Gbo » Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:52 pm

So if the bike is on the centre stand in gear with clutch in bits you can spin the back wheel and clutch inner spins free? I think you may have to buy some new plates, I have never had anything contaminate them to the point of ruining any. Sometimes things like loose chain or worn rear wheel cushioning rubbers or basket damper springs can make things worse. And you have checked for grooves in the basket so it’s not that.are the springs all similar lengths? It’s a strange one all right.
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